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November 14, 2012
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Well… in my case, not mad, but more… perplexed?

I normally don't post stuff like this, but I think it's actually very important. This is in regards to this post that has the original posting kitsuneverse.blogspot.com/2012…. (Very interesting points from the responder, kistuneverse!)

I've seen a huge backlash against Harris, but also a backlash against guys in general in the fandom. I don't think it helps anyone if we categorize fanboys as a collective. Not all guys/fanboys/geeks/nerds/casual observers are the same, and casually lumping them together seems counterproductive.

I mean, it's awesome that we're talking about this notion against the female side of the fandom, as it does exist and does needs recognition, but talking to these fanboys as if they're a singular entity is exactly what that Tony Harris dude is doing in regards to female cosplayers and the female fandom in general. If you, male or female, actually believe that he speaks or represents all guys in the fandom, then I don't know what to say, or how to convince you otherwise.

I know a lot of guys who are fanboys (as do many of you ), and they're some of the nicest, most decent guys I've ever met. They're friendly, family men and guys. That's not to say that there aren't guys who fit that mold, who go beyond human decency. But how do you think those guys feel when they're lumped together with misogynistic, unrepentant trolls? (and do not think for a moment that some women/girls can't be as misogynistic or even more than men.) This is not me excusing misogynic behavior from those people, because you, everyone deserves to have a hassle-free trip to the comic store or to a forum… pretty much anywhere you want to go and talk/enjoy your fandom. In fact, if I see that in public and someone's harassing someone about their fandom, I got ways of shutting that down (OH SNAP take that Todd Akin!).

Things happen, rants happen, and people's true opinions come to light, some of them popular people, but I urge you to think about what is being said, evaluate it, respond to it if you would like, as you have a right to do so. However, if you go back and then apply your opinion to a group with a particular attribute – well, then that's still discrimination and stereotyping no matter how you put it. You can try to pretend that you're not being discriminatory and hypocritical, but uh well… I don't think it does you any good.  

It's too easy sometimes…

It's so easy to say that all Christians are all homophobic, and that all Republicans hate women. Being a housewife is not a legitimate job. Good fathers don't exist. If a girl or guy don't ever plan to get married that they're somehow unable to understand commitment, and are probably promiscuous. Barren women probably will never be happy because they can't have children. If guys get raped, wait no, that's not possible. Guys who are fashionable are probably gay. Good on Nick Lachey for taking half of Jessica Simpson's money since it usually happens the other way around. If a guy likes a character who happens to be a female, he only likes her because of her looks. If a girl likes a male character, she only probably likes them because she can pair them with every other male character in that series/fandom.

TOO EASY.

Yeah… that's not to say that those type of people who think like that don't exist, but if you're going to argue with someone who has opinions like that, you might be in for a long haul. I'm sure all of you have had situations where you try to argue with someone and it seems like it's going no where? Spare yourself and go bake yourself a cookie.

I'm not going to lie, I myself have had viewpoints when I was younger that were very limited. But being on the internet so long, I know that there are a lot of good people out their, no matter the gender, race, sexual orientation, creed, or age. But I do acknowledge that there are a few people (on the internet and real life) who just seem to want to ruin it for everyone else, which is unfortunate, but a side effect of anonymity or the lack of restraint. You can try to argue this statement all you want, but most of those people who are considered trolls would not act like that if their true identity was front and center.

So I guess all I'm trying to say is please… please do not think of fanboys as a collective with a single hive mind whose main goal is to squander the fangirl population with their misguided misogyny. -OR- that fangirls are all un-knowledgable slash/yaoi-obsessed narcissistic gatekeepers, feminazis, or drama queens. That's irresponsible and doesn't help anyone.

It goes both ways.

People are allowed to have opinions. Besides, if you're going to get mad at girl for cosplaying and knowing probably absolutely nothing about comics or pop culture, get mad at this girl.

www.google.com/imgres?q=wampug…

… But you probably can't.

CAN YOU.

XD

Discussion welcome!
Add a Comment:
 
:iconirism:
Irism Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012
Circumstances happen, and different circumstances lead to different outcomes and consequently different opinions.

Cause and effect people, it's all about cause and effect.

In the case of "Rant Guy" here who openly bashes Cos-chicks, we can safely assume a "trigger event" has happened to him before hand that 'consequently' hardwired his mind to label F.cosplayers as such.

Unless we know the exact cause of his opinion, we on the neutral side can and with full right claim that he is on the wrong on generalizing each and every individual of a group with prejudice, unless proven otherwise.

P.S. Rook rocks :icondohohoplz::heart:
Reply
:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012  Professional Filmographer
Rook IS awesome. And cute! ^^

I'm usually on the neutral side too, even if I am part of the population being generalized. It's like when I heard what Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock said about abortion and rape.

I didn't get angry, I just got really perplexed at how people like them achieved high office, and more than doubly perplexed at the people who still backed these individiuals. I also laughed at all the jokes that followed on the Colbert Report. [link]. It was unreal!

I hope you had a wonderful holiday!
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:iconirism:
Irism Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012
Pulling strings, bribes and altogether dirty politics, world can be a sad, sad, and cruel place sometimes.

But I always did say that with buttload's of effort, anything's achievable, opinions, righting wrongs and/ or otherwise.

Ffff, Happy Holidays toooooo :la:

*cough*Motherfreaking can't wait for Rook-centric eppy*cough*>.>
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Professional Filmographer
XDDD I know right? It's called transparency guys!!!!

Anyways, as for Rook, then you'll absolutely love 16 and 17. ^^ Blarggg... I wish I could post the synopsis, just to ramp things up but alas... privacy issues. XDD
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:iconirism:
Irism Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
FUCK YEAH!! D:<

......Aww tis private .n.

Ah well it's cool, us fans can wait -u- Stay still my beating heart *stalkerwaits*
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:iconthe-starhorse:
The-Starhorse Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thank you for saying this. I agree with all of this. Reverse-discrimination is still recrimination. In fact, it's just fighting fire with fire, bitterness with bitterness, and the only thing that leads to is more hate on both sides.

I'll spare you a long-winded reply to your post by simply saying that I really appreciate someone of your status taking the time to say this, and so eloquently. I hope people will listen, and think about this. I appreciate the "fanboys" I talk to on Twitter, and who I've met over the years, and in no way would I ever lump them in with the "fanboys" who have treated me like an inferior species just because I'm a girl who happens to love the Transformers. My guy friends are awesome dudes, and I think if we as a culture ever want to dig ourselves out of this hole of stereotyping and hating each other, we have to start focusing on the good on both sides, not the bad.

And there I go rambling on. I'll stop now. Thanks again! :)
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012  Professional Filmographer
Why thank you darlin'! I appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment. XD

I know, the thing is, there's still a lot of assumption and discrimination goin' around, even if most people don't realize it. Like recently I read an article about pushing to hire a woman for the head of the CIA (after the Patreus affair) and I was like... I don't care who they hire, they just better be qualified! If she's a woman, cool, if he's mexican, cool...

But of course, I'm not going to leap on that because it would be different.

XD I don't have a status really, just an artist, just like you. ^^
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:iconhana707chan:
hana707chan Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Bless this post. FINALLYYYY!
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012  Professional Filmographer
XD Thank you! And much blessings to you! Hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving. ^^
Reply
:iconjasjuliet:
jasjuliet Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student General Artist
Brilliantly written! Thank you for this, and for extending the dialogue into other too-common stereotypes. It needed to be said! /Shares.
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional Filmographer
XD much thanks! I tried not to sound preachy, so hopefully I didn't. ^^
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:iconconnorcat:
ConnorCat Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012
Yeah I read that rant and I got the impression that Tony Harris was maybe a tad paranoid about something.
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
XD at first I was like... silly parody account, but then I was like, woah, um... maybe not! :p
Reply
:icongenesisstar20:
GenesisStar20 Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I do not hate women and I am a Republican.
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
Right on!
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:icongenesisstar20:
GenesisStar20 Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Although, I am not sure that I am a Republican completely.
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:iconredangel19:
RedAngel19 Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012
I agree.
Reply
:iconcarmenmcs:
CarmenMCS Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
You know what's the problem here? The same as always: most people are simply dumb. No matter the race, the genre, the topic. Some people like to ruin it for everyone, and too many other people fall in the trap and create drama for silly reasons.
Reply
:icongenesisstar20:
GenesisStar20 Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree with you on that.
Reply
:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
XDD true, true.

A lot of people forget that compared to the rest of the people, those people are few and far inbetween. The problem is also, is that they're LOUD, and it's hard to forget. ^^

I mean, have you seen the Westboro Church? My goodness.
Reply
:iconcarmenmcs:
CarmenMCS Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Pfff better not to speak about them, so maybe they'll get bored sooner of their own stupidity and stop their hate X_D People who wage war like this have too much free time in their hands...
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:icondel-arts:
Del-Arts Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012
Sorry to barge in here, but oh gosh, the Westboro Church. I watched the Louis Theroux documentaries on them and I literally could not believe people like that existed. Mental stuff.
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
I know! So you watched both of them huh? It's hard to imagine how much hate that they spew sometimes, and how much power the patriarch has over the whole church. And just how uncompromising these people were, I mean, just outstanding really...

I think "religulous" the documentary by Bill Maher was very interesting as well. ^^
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:icondel-arts:
Del-Arts Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
Yeah, it was rather surreal. The patriarch dodged every question Louis asked and they just looked more ridiculous as it went on. Felt sorry for the children especially.

I'll definitely check that out.
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:icondivineroar:
DivineROAR Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional General Artist
I meant cos play. Why do Macs insist on spell check?
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:icondivineroar:
DivineROAR Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional General Artist
Coldplay. Try giving Omniverse a chance and find out how many people will treat you like a traitor. It's been ugly some days.
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
Gosh, I mean I've seen some comments, but they were more for general fans of Omniverse, not specifically targeted at anyone. If you were targeted as an individual, now that's just crazy.

I hope that those people don't make you lose your faith in humans. XDD

If you had friends who treated you badly or made you feel uncomfortable about liking Omniverse, well, then they're not your friends. Simple as that.

You have support from me, sister!
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:icondivineroar:
DivineROAR Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional General Artist
And I support you! I wish I could have a job designing characters. It seems to be so fun even though it is hard. When I do fan fiction I like creating OCs to interact with the case of the show.
I thought one side of the OV thing was bad but to see bad comments about Dwayne Mc D after he died and then to see a Wanted Dead or Alive poster for Derrick I'm just get furious. It's just a show. If your that obsessed you need help. And I know even ill get upset of something bad happens to a character I like. It's part of what makes fandom tough. Like knowing Superboy and Miss M aren't supposed to be together then when the break up happens I have to accept that it really wasn't the comic canon relationship. But so many fans have melt downs. Especially fan girls. I think I've had more trouble with Gwevin fans over OV and I like them together. If they broke up or something happened to Kevin I will likely be upset too but I'd learn to get over it.

As for cosplay, my opinion is, girls should stick to female roles, guys should stick to male roles, than I think we wouldn't have so much fighting. Also I'm annoyed by comic cons hiring female models to dress up. Let the fans do it.
Reply
:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
XD I mean, I have my ships too, and if I feel like injustice has been done, I usually pout at the tv, and shake my fist.

:p well, I think many people wouldn't be complaining about the hiring models if there were males hired as well. I mean, I'm sure males are hired, but you never hear about them!
Reply
:iconicedragonblue:
IceDragonBlue Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012
HIRE MALE MODELS! GIVE ME MY CONAN THE BARBARIANS AND SMEXY ARAGORNS! GIVE THEM TO MEEEEEEEEE!
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:iconrandomdraggon:
RandomDraggon Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
It's dumb to judge anyone for cosplaying or contributing to fandom. It shouldn't matter who/what you are, if you love it and want to contribute or dress up, do so. There's no need for anyone to hate on anyone for doing something to express their feelings for something they love.
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
PREACH.
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:iconrandomdraggon:
RandomDraggon Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
haha ^^
Reply
:iconspottedalienmonster:
SpottedAlienMonster Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Student Filmographer
I'm so glad that you can now favorite journals.
Reply
:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
XD awesome. It's so weird to think that you couldn't favorite journals before, things always keep changing. XD
Reply
:iconspottedalienmonster:
SpottedAlienMonster Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Student Filmographer
And people will keep complaining about the change, much like people will keep complaining about fandoms and such.

Cue the Circle of Life!
Reply
:iconmalevolentmask:
MalevolentMask Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Yes! I just hate when people assume stuff on BOTH sides ^

On a personal note I came across a male vendor that I ended up talking to (unintentionally, he was trying to sell his stuff, which is understandable) and when I asked for a poster for my friend (who was standing next to me) of these two blond twins (vocaloid, they're a girl and boy sibling pair called Len and Rin) he automatically assumed and said "Ah yes the twincest-ness, all fangirls love that" It was incredibly uncomfortable to be seen as a stereotypical "fangirl" and how he just assumed me and my friend liked those characters for "fangirl" reasons.

Though I don't hear much from my male friends that attend cons I had one friend that kept getting "fangirls" following him etc. So other guys were harassing him and calling him a "man-whore" So I suppose it would be like that case in that article where that guy assumed that all/most woman cosplay just to be sexy. While my friend DID have an attractive costume, he himself wasn't like that at all and admired his character he was cosplaying as.

I think the main downfall is that people just assume things. If we didn't do this and actually gave people a chance we wouldn't have this issue. :/
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
I know, I totally got you. Assuming things is... dangerous, especially when it's passive.

[link]

I mean, even in the deviation above, there was a particular comment that got to me, which was the t & a comment, I think 8 or so comments down. Now normally, if there's a comment that strikes me as somewhat weird/insulting/mean, I ignore it. I'm not a hider of comments, but this particular comment struck me. I mean, if you read the followings, I get you could understand what I was thinking. XDD I wasn't trying to be trolling/argumentative, but I could understand how it could be read that way.

I try to be as impartial as possible, but if there is inequality or ignorance present, I won't hesitate to ask or to question. Like... I love my parents, I do, they're some of the nicest people in the world, but they grew up in a different time, and as much as I don't like to admit it, they do still have some of the prejudices that you think would have been left in the past (race/homosexuality).

I'm older now, and I don't hesitate to call them out on it, but you know... in a nice way. XD

But I like to have empathy as well. Some people don't understand that they're assuming things, and it doesn't mean that they're stupid or ignorant, they just have different levels of understanding. How people act, I think directly correlates on how people were raised and their environment.

XD
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:iconmalevolentmask:
MalevolentMask Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Hmm I guess that makes sense. I guess you're right, everyone has a sort of different set of mind when understanding things. I suppose we come across people that we don't quite understand their mindset or find it offensive.

On a side note, I didn't realize that someone was offended by your interpretation of Khaji Ro. I thought she was pretty cool looking, like the rest of the reach warriors. But I guess the "a & t" pose thing has been really critical lately. (understandable though, some comic artists really do break poor women's spines when they draw them like that XD) I feel like you kept it natural though. Back poses are a pretty common thing for both genders. XD
Reply
:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Professional Filmographer
XD I'm not sure if they were offended, put off, or disappointed, it was kind of a strange comment.

Speaking of breaking backs, I went back and looked at some old Rob Liefeld works. It was kind of awesome. XD But then I watched some Aeon Flux the cartoon, and then my back breaking day was complete.
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:iconmalevolentmask:
MalevolentMask Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Oh god Aeon Flux, so much back-breaking. XD
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional Filmographer
As much back breaking there was, it's one of my favs. I watch it all the time, makes good background noise
Reply
:icon2ndmercwithamouth:
2ndMercWithAMouth Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Student Filmographer
:clap: Very well written :D
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional Filmographer
Much thanks!
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:icon2ndmercwithamouth:
2ndMercWithAMouth Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Student Filmographer
:D
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:iconhero216:
Hero216 Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Student General Artist
I agree with everything said. :clap: Bravo!
(And yes, I get very mad at my fandom.)
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional Filmographer
XD Just to clarify, I don't get mad, more confused. XD
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:iconblackcatberry:
BlackCatBerry Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I can't agree more^^
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:icondou-hong:
dou-hong Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional Filmographer
*high five*
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:iconskylerfarrier:
SkylerFarrier Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
THIS.
I don't have anything to add; you touched on just about everything. o3o
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